Curse

Yichi · Oct 02, 2007, 05:54 PM // 17:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qual

I mean people wants DA nerfed. IT'S 2 secs cast time. If you can't interrupt that, well...

Its clear you havent tried to interrupt DA on a ranger with Aegis, Shields up, and SoD....

Byron · Oct 02, 2007, 06:01 PM // 18:01

Nerf List:
GoLE - 7 energy reduction at 0 energy storage
Agressive Refrain - gain adrenaline 25% slower
Shields up - cast time 1 second, or reduced duration
MoR - Mesmer skills only
Wearying strike - reduce damage about 20%
LoD (gasp!) - reduce range to earshot (like aegis)

Zabe · Oct 02, 2007, 06:05 PM // 18:05

SU Will never get casting time, forget it guys, really. Only way to nerf it is to reduce duration, increase recharge or change it otherwise, like removing the 50% block or something.

Qual · Oct 02, 2007, 06:16 PM // 18:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by ibreaktoilets

DA can be pretty hard to interrupt when you already have Aegis and "Shields Up!" tbh.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MistressYichi

Its clear you havent tried to interrupt DA on a ranger with Aegis, Shields up, and SoD....

Ehm... Have your heard of the mesmer ?

twicky_kid · Oct 02, 2007, 06:19 PM // 18:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zabe

SU Will never get casting time, forget it guys, really. Only way to nerf it is to reduce duration, increase recharge or change it otherwise, like removing the 50% block or something.

Knocking 2 seconds off the duration would probably be enough.

BlackSephir · Oct 02, 2007, 06:23 PM // 18:23

K, I'm only going to talk about A'
Deadly Paradox- removing it or changing functionality completely would be good. Automatically solves problems with skills like Augury of Death.

Wastrel's Collapse, Seeping Wound- make them useful?
Golden Skull Strike- when you can have Beguiling Haze/Temple Strike who would take GSS?

Yichi · Oct 02, 2007, 06:40 PM // 18:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qual

Ehm... Have your heard of the mesmer ?

Yes because your mesmer is always free to stop DA everytime it is recharged.... Not to mention that the opposing team could have a mesmer sitting on your mesmer. Oh wait we need to have a Ranger sitting on that mesmer... oh wait they have Aegis, Sod, and Shields Up....

Its not just DA either. Shields Up, Aegis, and SoD are a hinderance to any ranger. why do you think the cripshot ranger is so strong at the moment, a good deal of it has to do with the fact that attack cannot be blocked.

Razz L Dazzle · Oct 02, 2007, 07:00 PM // 19:00

@keithark

Calling things healway is a bad idea any time.

Would 3 warrior builds emerge more? Absolutely, but of course there'd be plenty of skills to keep that in check. Blinds are fine, most crying for a nerf to B-surge are out of line. Wards are fine on an ele, a little more energy and slightly higher recharge just makes it a little more important to use it well. Snares with water ele and crip shot are still a good option. If problems emergy without passive defense adjustments should be made in a timely manner instead of seeing IWAY verse IWAY finals this october.

Kiting would actually be needed, gasp in horror. Midliner with a stance or self heal , on noes! Ok i went to far thinking ether feast would be used on a mesmer but i wouldn't mind if it were. Just steal more energy pls.

People aren't advocating eliminating all passive defense. At least i'm not. I'd advocating toning down its overall effectiveness. Some of it cant be removed or prevented which causes passive gameplay. i.e. boring.

Warriors would actually kill things- i'd see this as good for GW.

Other points- Vocal minority requires a hex build to be effective, most don't want to say you need to run lots of hexes to beat a paragon. I'd rather fix them in a balanced environment then run a whole build dedicated towards that end.

Being forced to blind and diversion paragons means they are too powerful. They are suppose to be midline-support and not the class needing the blind nor should they need the diversion. Having an interrupt for their DA or Signet of return is fine but needing to diversion them or blind them is cause for concern.

Riotgear · Oct 02, 2007, 07:47 PM // 19:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by bungusmaximus

I think a hammer warrior should always be a better choice then a thumper, if aNet could achieve that in some way I think we're getting somewhere.

I don't see a problem with thumpers themselves, they tend to operate differently than hammer warriors. Whereas a hammer warrior tends to be oriented towards opportunistically creating major opportunities with 3-second KDs, thumpers were largely based on being able to power out Irresistable Blow and getting adrenaline for Hammer Bash more quickly. RaO is kind of idiotic because of that, they already have tools to deal with block, so now they get anti-kiting measures AND an IAS on one skill slot, and it boosts the pet too? Come on. When people start wondering whether they should take RaO or Ferocious Strike, I'll consider RaO balanced.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorekeeper

Before you tell me that these counters are not available in TA, i just need to say that the game is rarely balanced (if ever) because of what goes on in 4vs4 arenas.

Because TA is obviously a joke format that doesn't deserve to be balanced.

Quote:

please stop crying about spiritway in HA. All you achieve is to make yourself look like a mediocre player. One thread was already closed in the HA section because of this unnecessary whining and it seems to be migrating here.

I'm complaining about thumpers, not spiritway. I can deal with spiritway. The only reason thumpers aren't a problem right now is because the current hyper-defensive meta owns them. Once the layered defenses get cut down, they're going to become a problem again, or at least be overly effective for something that I could probably play at 95% effectiveness while drunk. I'd know, I played one drunk. I could probably play a Paragon drunk too, but that's another discussion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abnaxus

Aren't there already counters against sins, paragons, rangers or whatever?

For any spammer, maybe I'm wrong but there's a mesmer skill that disable spammable skills ... wait let me check on wiki ... diversion is that the name?
Oh sorry, diversion must be used ONLY on monks to prevent them from healing, sorry my bad ...

Yes, I usually run 2 monks with 6 mesmers so I can cast Diversion on everything.

Quote:

yeah vocal minority and ulcerous lungs, I remember this, undead necromancers in PvE spammed as hell in NF.

Rangers with hammers? I agree, they cannot be blinded, blurred vision is not viable, even with soothing images they gain huge adrenaline to fuel their deadly attacks which hit hard even if they're weakened ...

PvE mobs pack skills like that because they don't care whether or not their 15-energy hex sticks or not, or gets interrupted, because they have nearly unlimited energy and barely even care about staying alive. Soothing Images is not worth 15 energy on a player, especially if you're not running a hex build that can force it to stick.

VM and Ulcerous are build wars counters, if the opposing team doesn't bring a Paragon, you have two completely-wasted skill slots. Paragons need counters that can be reasonably slotted for reasons other than simply cockblocking Paragons.

Seamus Finn · Oct 02, 2007, 08:40 PM // 20:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razz L Dazzle

Being forced to blind and diversion paragons means they are too powerful. They are suppose to be midline-support and not the class needing the blind nor should they need the diversion. Having an interrupt for their DA or Signet of return is fine but needing to diversion them or blind them is cause for concern.

Needing to blind a physical damage class is bad? The only problem I may have with paragon damage is how much you can get for such little investment, but if your physical damage dealers aren't worth blinding...

Andrew Patrick · Oct 02, 2007, 09:39 PM // 21:39

GG making these threads.

I'll make sure Izzy sees them before the next balance update.

Ensign · Oct 02, 2007, 09:44 PM // 21:44

The only changes that are really necessary are to Deadly Paradox and Aggressive Refrain (Paragons in general).

Fixing the bigger problems with the metagame, introduced in Nightfall, would require many more changes than are realistic.

Yichi · Oct 02, 2007, 09:45 PM // 21:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

The only changes that are really necessary are to Deadly Paradox and Aggressive Refrain (Paragons in general).

I would add MoR and Shields Up to this list as needing a few twinks with it as well.

MoR - Lowering the skill recharge to say 33% and drop it to 3-15 duration would work.
SU - Lowering duration to 3-7 and capping block at 33% could work well for this.

or alternatively do similar to the fix to Watch Yourself and make the block/recharge (mor) scalable with the attribute.

MoR - Keep same but start base off at 25% recharge and scale to [email protected]
SU - Keep the duration, but have block scale from 25-50 with investment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Fixing the bigger problems with the metagame, introduced in Nightfall, would require many more changes than are realistic.

/agree

Ensign · Oct 02, 2007, 10:05 PM // 22:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by MistressYichi

I would add MoR and Shields Up to this list as needing a few twinks with it as well.

Eh you could put MoR back up to 10 energy if you really wanted to change it, but I don't think it's even the best elite for a Dom guy. Are you thinking about its use on a Dom Mesmer, or is the concern with the skill powering Angorodon's Gaze and other dumb arena templates?

"Shields Up!" would need to be changed along with a whole slew of other skills; the passive defense metagame is retarded, but if you take away all that defense physicals will just kick the shit out of everything and there's nothing you can do about it.

twicky_kid · Oct 02, 2007, 10:12 PM // 22:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

"Shields Up!" would need to be changed along with a whole slew of other skills; the passive defense metagame is retarded, but if you take away all that defense physicals will just kick the shit out of everything and there's nothing you can do about it.

I don't think all of the passive def should be shot to hell. Just lower the duration of some of it to give more windows of opportunity.

Yichi · Oct 02, 2007, 10:15 PM // 22:15

Actually I was focusing its use on the perma ward melee bitch mesmer thats in 90% of gvg's now, but throughout the timespan since its original buff, it has made a virtual dumbing down of the mesmer class in PvP. Instead of playing this class tactically and knowing when/where to cast and land interrupts/shutdown, it became a spam on recharge guy and pray you hit something important.

"Shields Up" needs to be adressed due to two reasons. One is that it would help to promote more diversity in the ranger build now a days since the passive meta blockway BS thats plaguing PvP, the only really viable build being ran atm is the cripshot. You would see a more diverse role for the ranger and bring back a few of the more diverse and popular builds such as the BA ranger, or BHA, or Melandrus. Two is that it would force teams to not rely on vod so much, knowing that they have a failsafe from the archers and npc's for a period of time.

blakecraw · Oct 02, 2007, 10:46 PM // 22:46

I know the feeling is that paragons are overpowered, but I think Vocal Minority could use a hit, (in duration and maybe recharge).

Also, RaO should either not increase attack speed, cause +33% dmg to the ranger while using it (how is going on a rampage that different from going on a frenzy?), or end on skill use.

Sinful Doom · Oct 02, 2007, 10:57 PM // 22:57

A few things ill add to the nerf list.

[skill]Recall[/skill]

15, 1, 30
Enchantment Spell. While you maintain Recall on target other ally, nothing happens. When Recall ends, you Shadow Step to that ally's location. If Recall ends prematurely you do not Shadow Step to ally's location. Recall has a range of 1.5 times earshot distance. (range of 2x earshot at most plzzz)

Prematurely indicates removal from a foes enchantment strip. These people need to start being held accountable for having this stripped.

[skill]Siphon Speed[/skill]

5,1,10
Hex Spell. For 3..12..18 seconds, target foe moves 15% slower and you move 15% faster. This spell has half the normal range.

Reasons I would like this changed.
1. Recharge and energy cost make it too easily spammed.
2. The duration is just too much atm.
3. It acts not only a snare hex but as an enchantment. There are elites in the game that dont offer 33% movement increase.

[skill]Wild Blow[/skill]

This will be a buff and a nerf at the same time. I hate when other classes can use a skill better or more effectivly than the primary. (example: D/W Melandru's dervish)

5,0,0,8 (move this skill to Strength and scale accordingly)
Melee Attack. If this attack hits any Stance used by your target ends. A critical hit will occur 25%..45%..65% of the time. This attack cannot be blocked.

TBH, I'd like to even see the critical fail at less than 4 strength.

kvndoom · Oct 02, 2007, 11:08 PM // 23:08

Wild Blow already got nerfed once because of Grenth. If anything, just make it cost 4 adrenaline instead of any energy, and the effect still be the same. Then it's no longer on-demand for classes that have more than 2 energy regen, but still has the same detriment if used by warriors.

twicky_kid · Oct 02, 2007, 11:08 PM // 23:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sinful Doom

[skill]Wild Blow[/skill]

I hate when other classes can use a skill better or more effectivly than the primary. (example: D/W Melandru's dervish)

There are many skills that work better on a secondary than a primary. Every bar contains at least 1 right now. Its not a bad thing really.